'Okay then.....
"This is much better than the original, but then that's not really too difficult is it?"
You clueless fuck, the original was painted in 1985. Get some context....
The only exposure to graffiti in 85 (apart from slogans, poetry, and Crass's stencil campaign) had been in glimpses via Blondies Rapture Video, Malcolm McLaren's Buffalo Gals/Duck Rock on TOTP, sets of Michael Winner films and the Clash/Futura 2000...... in late 84 Subway Art was published, Style Wars had just been aired on C4, LBC and Capital Radio started broadcasting late night underground Hip Hop imports from the US to London town....
Punk and Ska was losing its edge, Oi was taken over by the NF....there was a cultural wasteland,glue and special brew... Thatcher in power, nuclear war imminent,the peace convoy/hippy travellers trashed at the beanfield/Stonehenge festy over, the charts full of 95% shit....
At a time when the most clued up pioneers were still learning to write a decent tag freehand, Robbo, (previously a skinhead), had the bollocks to make a bold break from a culture that was becoming increasingly right wing, (with bands like Skrewdriver/Brutal Attack/Cock Sparrer etc) and embraced a new multiculturalism in the face of this entrenched aggression in his community and painted that Masterpiece of its time, a prophecy of what was to come, at the same time as he was starting to paint pieces on trains.
It's easy to say it looks weak in the light of what people are doing now, but its easy to say the same about the Willendorf Venus in the light of Computer Aided Design
Unsupported by acceptance or even awareness of the hip hop culture by the broader public, for no profit other than the joy of graffiti, in a very hot location (especially if you're painting freehand which would require a hell of a lot more time than required to do a stencil), and with Carplan and Dupli-Colour (not Beltons etc manufactured for graffiti); he set the pace for the whole culture to follow.
.....what were you doing in 1985 that gives you the right and knowledge to judge?? what was Banksy doing in 1985? Choir practise then tea and scones if the Daily Mail is to be believed...
"You only have to look at the art to see what level they are at. It's like
something you'd draw on your school exercise book when you're 12"
Whatever skewed misconceptions you may cherish regarding their contemporary output the collective historical diverse output legacy of wholecars and unseen new workof these guys cannot be underestimated, but is still largely unseen/unacknowledged by the average street art fanboy.
"Because they don't like the fact that what he does is better than what they do"
What, street pieces that copy the work and styles of Blek le Rat and Gee Vaucher, with the odd pinch of the iconography of every movement the true undergroundl lived 24/7 but used with the sincerity of advertising.???... with images either taken from existing (modified) photographs or created using posed life models in a studio, dressed and accessorised using a props department, then photographed and processed/separated in photoshop, machine cut into huge stencils in two minutes using a 'large format cutting plotter' and then painted by assistants....., (basically printing photos onto street walls) which are much of the time previously agreed with the buildings owners and passed off as illegal and released to the press via rewarded connections....thus turned it into an advert empty of any empathy or meaning, and with the magic of PR sold
to people who have largely never experienced the true underground, as a vicarious
substitute for actual life experience; and backed by a very dodgy 'security
firm'!
Yeah *so* much better than the real buzz of pure cultural expression.....
"I just wonder if he would be as magnanimous if the sneaker was on the
other foot and it was Banksy lying in a hospital bed"
Maybe if Robbo was suspected of putting him there and wanted to change the public perception.'
I was thowing up shit pieces up around London, what were you up to?
ReplyDeleteIn 1985 graf was mainstream, Turk 182 came out for fucks sake!
ReplyDeleteturk who? Look I just made up a name, he bombed London way back in 1983. His name is Gota174, heard of him?
ReplyDeleteA complete legend! So underground, he never heard of himself!
Is robbo dead yet ?
ReplyDelete"Robbo, (previously a skinhead), had the bollocks to make a bold break from a culture that was becoming increasingly right wing". Maybe hope for Angelo yet? probably not he has gone too far down the racist culture.
ReplyDeletelook around ,do you see any examples of graffiti surviving from 85? the peice on regents canal stayed there largely untouched bar a few hits, for 25 years because of its position across a canal. tags from 85 are near impossible to find..there are some and they are photographed and treasured.
ReplyDelete..if Banksy had kept away from the peice we would have been able to regard and respect the miracle of the oldest surviving example of graffiti in London city.
to co-opt that is so low down- to replace it with an infantile replica is beyond words..
Yes my brother, Robbo would be furious.... that shit needs taking out
ReplyDeleteTrash it all and start again, its all crap now so start afresh.
ReplyDeletegraf was 'mainstream' in 85? Depends on your definitions of graf and mainstream.
ReplyDeleteOkay it had started to be co-opted into the broader culture etc years before, after the UGA (united graffiti artists ) first show in City College NY in 1972 (the first ever street art graffiti exhibition) they did the sets for Twyla Sharpes ballet, Deuce Coupe in April 73 featured a background painted by Phase 2, Stay High 149, Snake 1 and others.
Dya call that mainstream? How pedantic do you want to get?
It all depends on your definition of 'mainstream'.........movies Beat Street and Brekdance featured it but in a weak and diluted way, Wild Style was more realistic, but still a bit lame IMHO.
London didn't get a live running art concentratedall over the tube system with serious legends beginning to emerge (Drax,Fuel,Cazbee,Foam,Doze,Prime,Hate,Urge,Reds,Kast,etc) with a scene outside of NY culture until around 86,many of us was writing in one way or anopther for years before, but that was when it all fucking blew up properly..... and still it was underground for years despite the odd commercial piece by Chrome Angels or Goldies Weetabixthing, the TDK ads by Pride etc it was still fucking underground, trust me mate no aspirations to do a gallery show, just trains....the very idea would have been a joke.
Banksy gave that thuggish cockney twat robbo the 15 minutes of fame he's craved all of his life, that should not be forgotten. The Robbo canal piece was not treasured, it was tagged to fuck, that should also not be forgotten. Robbo and his team of fuckwits will be long forgotten by Christmas, thank the good Lord for that.
ReplyDeleteYou sad fucking fool. You're just another Banksy fanboy troll pissed off because this whole thing with Robbo has made your hero look like the absolute imposter that he is. What the fuck have you moronic Banksy fans ever done with your lives except sit behind a computer and buy some prints? You know nothing of street culture, which is why you stick your tongues so far up a middle-class nerdy stencil mug's arse. Even your username 'Robbo who?' glaringly shows you to be an idiot with no understanding of the history of this artform. Keep on embarrassing yourself though, it just makes the rest of us even more determined to destroy cunts like you.
ReplyDeletemovies Beat
ReplyDeleteStreet and Brekdance featured it but in a weak and diluted way, Wild
Style was more realistic, but still a bit lame IMHO.
That would be my definition of something being mainstream, thought Turk182 spelled that out simply enough for anyone?
So Robbo was a skinhead. Explains a lot including the eating out on I slapped xyz for years.
ReplyDeleteYeah I remember the queues to see that 1985 piece. You had to wait at least 2 seconds at peak times. You should have had an ice cream van there.
ReplyDeleteIt's fucking weird that you Banksy fans are so loyal to what amounts to a load of PR bullshit from a middle class nancy-boy wanker who doesn't even have the balls to do his own street art, so he pays other people to do it for him. Such a bad-boy rebel huh? The more you defend him the more brainwashed and stupid you look. Either that or you're just worried that the price of your prints will drop like a stone once the wider public cotton on to what a fake cunt he is.
ReplyDeletepeace to writers! the authors! the fucking kings!
ReplyDeleteIt used to be all trees round here, everything was made of wood and cost a penny.
ReplyDeleteYeah, better than a fucking wasteland full of plastic trash where everything costs a fortune and so called 'graffiti' artists don't even do their own graffiti, yet have their own PR agent to convince everybody that they do.
ReplyDeleteWho is defending Banksy? For goodness sake get over your petty obsession.
ReplyDeleteOk, well why would you come on here talking absolute shit about Robbo then? He hasn't 'dined out for years' on slapping Banksy, he got asked a question about it 2 years ago in an interview for an obscure book aimed at the hardcore graffiti community. What was he meant to do, deny it? Also, nobody said there were queues to see his 1985 piece did they?? So obviously when you come on here making stuff up like that then it's not really a surprise that people will think you've got an agenda.
ReplyDeleteI've read several interviews where old coma boy has proudly proclaimed his 'slapping' of Banksy, not including the graffiti wars documentary. He was clearly dining out on Banksy's fame which is really pretty desperate and sad for a so called legend (in his own pants)
ReplyDeleteThere would have been no incident, hence no 'slap' if Banksy, when introduced to Robbo had blatantly and calculatedly lied to his face and saind "I've never heard of you" to someone who was famed and lauded as all city London King all over the UK Europe and beyond for his legendary feats in graffiti art
ReplyDeleteI think you will find the root of the problem in Banksys delusion that he is somehow above the conventons of human culture and respect established over millenia, which states that an outsider novice should show respect to an indigenous master.
That for me is the most interesting part of the story and reveals more about Banksy's real nature than it does about Robbo's, so is there any wonder it was repeated to people who had previously only heard the false PRed version about Banksy, the friend of the little guy, the voice of graffiti, the empathic proletarian, when this incident alone dispels this bullshit mirage in one fell swoop and shows his haughty arrogant nature from his first arrival in London.
Robbo never pretended to be anything other than what he was/is/will hopefully be again.
Obviously he is going to be asked about it in interviews, but that's only the direct result of Banksy starting the whole feud in the first place. You didn't hear Robbo talking about it for the previous 10 years since it happened did you? As for Robbo riding off of Banksy's fame...you've got it all sadly back to front mate. Without pioneers like Robbo there would have been no graffiti culture for Banksy to parasite off of like the bloodsucking middle-class commercial leech that he is.
ReplyDeleteReal brave of you to make fun of Robbo's injury though. Just ask yourself if you'd say it to his face if he was well, and then once you realise the answer to that question stop to contemplate for a while what a weak cowardly little pussyhole you are.
Perhaps because I don't like people who indulge in violence and I don't rate his stuff. Sorry if that offends.
ReplyDeleteMost people if asked about an alledged assault in an interview would deny it or at least stay quiet about it wouldn't they?
Nobody said anything about queues but the point I was trying to make was that very few were at all interested until this alledged masterpiece was painted over. Now its the hip bandwaggon to jump on.
Anyway I don't wish anyone ill and hope that Robbo makes a full and complete recovery soon.
I wouldn't really call it violence,more of a clip round the ear to curb the behaviour of a bigmouthed arrogant egotist. Robbo probably did Banksy a favour, because somebody else would have done it before long anyway, and if it had happened on the street then it would have been a lot worse. This is the problem you see...middle-class public schoolboys come along and think they can just walk straight into street culture with all of their pithy sarcasm and sense of ingrained privilege and entitlement intact, but not understanding that things operate differently in that culture and you have to show a bit of humility and respect sometimes.
ReplyDeleteI can't see why Robbo should have to deny what happened. Quite a few people were there apparently, so word got around anyway. You might not agree with what he did, but at least he's honest and doesn't try to cover things up. Banksy is denying it ever happened though, which just goes to show that he cares more about his PR image than telling the truth. No surprise there really though.
It's not really just about the Robbo piece anyway. A lot of people were sick of the way Banksy operates, how he steals other people's ideas, has commercialised a culture, is a nasty scheming piece of work etc. etc. for a long time. The Robbo incident was kind of the last straw and gave a focal point to a generalised dislike of him.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that Robbo has been physically bullying people his entire life, he seem that sort of bloke. Perhaps he bit off more than he can chew one night which is why he's in the state he's in?.......I've seen it happen before, the gobby pub bully getting a severe pasting from someone who was happily minding their own business until confronted.
ReplyDeleteEasy to speculate when you don't know the man, but I've met Robbo, and despite me being about a foot shorter and at least 5 stone lighter than him he was perfectly nice to me. Not intimidating or bullying at all. Then again, that's probably at least in part because I was polite to him, as I would be to anyone I met.
ReplyDeleteBasically, if you act like a cunt and insult people in a pub full of working class people anywhere in the country you're likely to get a slap. That's just the way things are. Banksy, coming from his middle class background obviously didn't understand the culture he'd chosen to mix in and had to learn the hard way.
It's easy to speculate when you don't know Banksy.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the insight and the thoughtful response.
ReplyDeleteAt least I know one of the people involved though, so I can make 50% more of an informed judgement than someone like you for example who is talking from a position of total ignorance. Besides, I've heard from enough people whose opinion I trust to know that Banksy is indeed a snivelling little snide cunt of a man.
ReplyDeleteBanksy is snide and robbo is a bully, they both sound like cunts to me.
ReplyDeleteRobbo isn't a bully though. Slapping a nasty little upstart prick who has insulted you doesn't make someone a bully. When Robbo met Banksy he was initially very polite to him and even pretended to have heard of Banksy (when he actually hadn't) to try to avoid Banksy losing face. Does that sound like someone who goes around bullying people? If that was indeed the case then Robbo would surely have just been aggressive and insulting right from the start, but instead he did his best to be nice to Banksy and just got rudeness and disrespect in return.
ReplyDeleteRobbo has got loads of genuine mates who have supported him all through this feud. The only people sticking up for Banksy are people who don't know him, because those that do know him personally tend not to like him. Idiots like Vandalog and the mugs on .info thought the 'graffiti wars' documentary was so one sided, but the truth is that the film makers probably wouldn't have been able to find anyone willing to stand up for Banksy even if they'd tried.
A lot of people are so brainwashed by years of PR bullshit that they now only see what Banksy has conditioned them to see, and they're too scared to face the reality about their hero because it would be as upsetting for them as when they found out Father Xmas didn't really exist.
The truth of the matter is that Banksy is the one who's the bully. He's well known for belittling people and treating them like shit. He only ever does anything nice if he can score some PR points from it. Banksy doesn't have any real friends, just paid acquaintances.